Simone Collins is making pizza, sourdough and banana bread while juggling a toddler on her back when a fight breaks out between two of her three older children that inevitably ends in tears.
With four kids under six and a fifth on the way, she and husband Malcolm Collins might be assumed to just love children, but Malcolm says it's not really about that at all.
"Kids do not exist for our pleasure, right? If you want that, get a pet. Kids, we have to pay to the future the debt we owe the past," he says.
The Collinses — who ultimately want at least seven children and preferably up to 12 — have become the poster couple for the pronatalist movement, which promotes having more babies to address falling birth rates.
"Our greatest threat is fertility collapse," he says, while his youngest daughter, Industry Americus, squirms in his lap.
"If fertility collapse does lead to a collapse of human civilisation, eventually all of life dies, because humans are the only life form on this planet that can take life to the stars before the sun eventually and inevitably consumes our planet."